Recent Posts

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1
Help us to help you / Re: Antidepressant Survey
« Last post by Anonymous on October 18, 2017, 09:02:49 AM »
1. Age:
21 when first complained of symptoms. 23 now.

2. Have you visited a NHS doctor complaining of several symptoms of low T?
Yes

3. If testosterone levels were tested please state Total T/Serum T, or Free T if known: Had 4 blood test results. Testosterone came back at 8.8, 11.3, 9,9 and a sporadic 18

4. Did investigations result in a testosterone deficiency diagnosis and prescribed Testosterone?
No. Was fobbed off as overweight, need more excitement in my life, stuff to look forward to, be more active etc when I already do plenty and go to the gym/play sports.

5.
a.Was your complaint of low testosterone rejected and diagnosed as depression/overweight/age or other?
Yes.
b.Were you prescribed antidepressants as a treatment for your low testosterone complaint? No, thankfully not.

6.
a.Are you located in mainland UK?
Yes, Norfolk.
b. If "no" to the above, which country do you reside?

7. Any other comments:
Had to go private to get prescribed Clomid for my low testosterone. Albeit not that costly, it's still expense that I shouldn't have to pay for, neither all the messing around with the NHS appointments to just get fobbed off every time and waste a year and a half of my life trying to get treated.
2
Help us to help you / Re: Antidepressant Survey
« Last post by ADM on October 17, 2017, 08:35:58 PM »
1. Age: 60

2. Have you visited a NHS doctor complaining of several symptoms of low T? yes

3. If testosterone levels were tested please state Total T/Serum T, or Free T if known: 8.0

4. Did investigations result in a testosterone deficiency diagnosis and prescribed Testosterone? yes

5.
a.Was your complaint of low testosterone rejected and diagnosed as depression/overweight/age or other? no
b.Were you prescribed antidepressants as a treatment for your low testosterone complaint? no

6.
a.Are you located in mainland UK? yes
b. If "no" to the above, which country do you reside?

7. Any other comments: 
3
Therapy Issues / Re: Testosterone HRT and Oestradiol levels
« Last post by Olly13 on October 17, 2017, 02:05:43 PM »
Hi all. I am a new member and this is my first post. I am a 68 year old male. I was diagnosed with Low testosterone about 8 years ago (level was 3nmol/L). I was put on Testogel (1x 50mg sachet per day) and whilst the Testosterone level went up the initial benefits (improved mood, less brain fog, improved labido, etc) were short lived and I had side effects (very greasy skin on face and scalp with bad acne, very sore / red nipples, breast growth, testicular atrophy). The Endo I was seeing said such side effects are normal and to be expected. I said that without seeing the benefits I didn't see the point of suffering the side effects. He explained the other benefits of HRT as bone and muscle strength and benefits to the cardio system. I persevered with the treatment for a few years but always felt the initial symptoms of low testosterone remained and the side effects of the treatment were increasingly difficult to cope with. Eventually I stopped the treatment. the side effects reduced quickly - skin settled down, acne went away, nipple soreness subsided. About 6 months ago I had a blood test which showed my Testosterone level was less than 1nmol/L, and I must say I had been feeling pretty rotten for some time. My GP put me back on HRT this time Tostran. The previous cycle repeated itself, i.e. some initial benefits that quickly subsided and the same side effects as before started. I di some research myself and found the link between Testosterone and Oestradiol, i.e. an enzyme (Aromatase) binds to Testosterone and converts it to Oestradiol (the male form of Oestogen). It appears that in some people the more Testosterone that is added the more of it is converted to Oestradiol and the side effects of too much Oestradiol are pretty much the same as low Testosterone. This seemed to reflect what I was seeing in my case. I got my GP to test the Oestradiol level as well as Testosterone, we then changed the dose of Testosterone and did another test to see if the Oestradoil level also changed. on the first test T was 10nmol and Oestradiol was 94pmol. After reducing the dose and testing agin the T was 3nmol and the Oestradiol was 46pmol. This appears to confirm what the research suggested - as I increase my T with HRT it is just being converted to Oestradiol and I am not seeing any benefit from the addition of Testosterone.
Sorry for the long winded post but I would be really greatful for any thoughts on this or if anyone else has any knowledge / experience to confirm or not this thinking. I am seeing my GP in a few weeks and whilst he is being very helpful in retesting and adjusting dosage etc, I feel he is waiting for me to suggest what we do with this information.

Hey there, welcome to the forum!

I'll have to keep this short as I'm low on time (lunch break), but this does indeed scream high oestradiol, caused by overactivity of the aromatase enzyme.

You need to be on a low dose of Anastrozole, this will stop  the conversion from being as severe as it is.

Once this is nailed down you'll feel the benefits again.

Your endo is also right regarding bone and heart etc, your literally setting yourself up for health problems if you do nothing.

:)
4
Therapy Issues / Testosterone HRT and Oestradiol levels
« Last post by Keenone on October 17, 2017, 01:19:34 PM »
Hi all. I am a new member and this is my first post. I am a 68 year old male. I was diagnosed with Low testosterone about 8 years ago (level was 3nmol/L). I was put on Testogel (1x 50mg sachet per day) and whilst the Testosterone level went up the initial benefits (improved mood, less brain fog, improved labido, etc) were short lived and I had side effects (very greasy skin on face and scalp with bad acne, very sore / red nipples, breast growth, testicular atrophy). The Endo I was seeing said such side effects are normal and to be expected. I said that without seeing the benefits I didn't see the point of suffering the side effects. He explained the other benefits of HRT as bone and muscle strength and benefits to the cardio system. I persevered with the treatment for a few years but always felt the initial symptoms of low testosterone remained and the side effects of the treatment were increasingly difficult to cope with. Eventually I stopped the treatment. the side effects reduced quickly - skin settled down, acne went away, nipple soreness subsided. About 6 months ago I had a blood test which showed my Testosterone level was less than 1nmol/L, and I must say I had been feeling pretty rotten for some time. My GP put me back on HRT this time Tostran. The previous cycle repeated itself, i.e. some initial benefits that quickly subsided and the same side effects as before started. I di some research myself and found the link between Testosterone and Oestradiol, i.e. an enzyme (Aromatase) binds to Testosterone and converts it to Oestradiol (the male form of Oestogen). It appears that in some people the more Testosterone that is added the more of it is converted to Oestradiol and the side effects of too much Oestradiol are pretty much the same as low Testosterone. This seemed to reflect what I was seeing in my case. I got my GP to test the Oestradiol level as well as Testosterone, we then changed the dose of Testosterone and did another test to see if the Oestradoil level also changed. on the first test T was 10nmol and Oestradiol was 94pmol. After reducing the dose and testing agin the T was 3nmol and the Oestradiol was 46pmol. This appears to confirm what the research suggested - as I increase my T with HRT it is just being converted to Oestradiol and I am not seeing any benefit from the addition of Testosterone.
Sorry for the long winded post but I would be really greatful for any thoughts on this or if anyone else has any knowledge / experience to confirm or not this thinking. I am seeing my GP in a few weeks and whilst he is being very helpful in retesting and adjusting dosage etc, I feel he is waiting for me to suggest what we do with this information.
5
Diagnosis Problems / Re: SURVEY REMINDER
« Last post by Anonymous on October 17, 2017, 12:08:33 PM »
Will try remember to do it sometime this week mate.
6
Help us to help you / Re: Antidepressant Survey
« Last post by Dancingbear on October 16, 2017, 08:00:20 PM »
This thread is targeted toward men who have been tested for low testosterone and exhibiting symptoms of low T. Please copy and paste the questions below into your reply, adding your answers at the side or below the questions.

Please answer "Yes" or "No" to the following questions or answer respectively:

1. Age:

2. Have you visited a NHS doctor complaining of several symptoms of low T?

3. If testosterone levels were tested please state Total T/Serum T, or Free T if known:

4. Did investigations result in a testosterone deficiency diagnosis and prescribed Testosterone?

5.
a.Was your complaint of low testosterone rejected and diagnosed as depression/overweight/age or other?
b.Were you prescribed antidepressants as a treatment for your low testosterone complaint?

6.
a.Are you located in mainland UK?
b. If "no" to the above, which country do you reside?

7. Any other comments:

Many thanks!

Craig
1. Age: 46

2. Have you visited a NHS doctor complaining of several symptoms of low T? Yes

3. If testosterone levels were tested please state Total T/Serum T, or Free T if known: June 2015 5.4nmol/L,

4. Did investigations result in a testosterone deficiency diagnosis and prescribed Testosterone? No, referred to Endocrinologist.

5.
a.Was your complaint of low testosterone rejected and diagnosed as depression/overweight/age or other? Other. Retested 1 month later by endo, result 8.4nmol/L. Potential treatment pulled and told it was naturally low and didn't require treatment.
b.Were you prescribed antidepressants as a treatment for your low testosterone complaint? No.

6.
a.Are you located in mainland UK? Yes
b. If "no" to the above, which country do you reside?

7. Any other comments: Had to go private to get acknowledgement of my low T condition. On Nebido protocol from October 2015. Receive injection every 8 weeks. Fully believe I would have eventually been diagnosed as depressed if I had persisted with my GP/Endo.
Now had policy for Income Protection rejected from top UK insurance company as a result of TRT therapy.
While some of the American protocols for TRT are gung-ho at least they are making inroads to improving the quality of life for men.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk
7
Diagnosis Problems / SURVEY REMINDER
« Last post by Ashto70 on October 16, 2017, 07:15:20 PM »
Hi gentlemen

Just a quick appeal and reminder: Could those who have not yet taken part please take just a couple of minutes to answer five simple questions regarding your visit to your GP about your symptoms of low testosterone? This survey applies to those who are now being treated and those currently undergoing investigations or seeking treatment.

Here's the link to the survey...
http://www.androids.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=258.0

I would like to get at least another five respondents before compiling the information as part of a small participant study.

Many thanks in advance.
Craig
8
Diagnosis Problems / Re: I keep losing a testicle..
« Last post by Ashto70 on October 15, 2017, 02:02:38 PM »
Hi Doran

Sorry for the long post. 8)

If you're topping up with Sustanon every three weeks then it's likely the accumulation of long esters (testosterone decanoate 100mg) will result in a test level not reflective of 250mg/21 days. The level is likely to be higher than it should and this means your doctor is going to conclude that your 21-day cycle is sufficient. Basically, if you ask for an increase in frequency to two-weekly shots your GP is probably going to run a blood test to validate the necessity. If you reckon this is the route she'll take you need to desist from topping up for at least eight weeks before visiting the GP to ensure your 21-day cycle levels are realistic.

What's the reason for giving HCG a try? If the reason is due to the anxiety of the vanishing testicles then you have a slim but real chance your GP is empathetic. By slim though, I mean 5% slim. Most patients are only prescribed if they want to preserve fertility for family planning reasons. Even then I'd say the chances of successfully being prescribed is 25% because there are other means of resolving any cessation of fertility by stopping therapy. If your reason for trying HCG is to increase testosterone levels then there would be no need if your doctor is willing to increase your dose to fortnightly injections.

My personal advice is if you want to try HCG for other than fertility purposes I would forget it. Your risk from getting gynecomastia is real, especially from any prolonged use. Your pubertal/adolescent experience from gynecomastia is another risk factor you need to take into account. So you need to evaluate and ask yourself one question: Considering the small but real risk involved, would I rather have small and raised testicles or man-boobs? That's a choice you really need to make. Here's a link to a very short study I think you'll find interesting:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2770912/
Mayo Clinic Proceedings: Mayo Clin Proc. 2009 Nov; 84(11): 10101015.

Have a look at the gyne risks in this table:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2770912/table/T2/



One extract I noted of particular interest was:

"Of note, patients with pubertal gynecomastia have normal levels of serum estradiol, testosterone, and dehydroepiandrosterone-sulfate and a normal estrogen-testosterone ratio. However, free testosterone levels in these patients are lower than those of controls without gynecomastia. Eventually, the exposure to the hormonal imbalance leads to proliferation of glandular tissues, ie, ductal hyperplasia."
Johnson and Murad (2009).
Gynecomastia: Pathophysiology, Evaluation, and Management

Referring to the claim in the above reference you're currently protected in a sense due to your levels of active (free) testosterone being supplied by therapy, and you're an adult without gyne and not a kid with it. However, adding HCG to the mix could well end up with the imbalance the extract talks about recurring.

I overlooked your question about my HCG use, so apologies for that. However, no, I don't use HCG and never have done. I have a family and I'm now sterile anyway from radiation therapy, castration, and long-term testosterone treatment. So I have no reason to even consider using it, but I do totally understand why some guys might wish to use it to resolve anxiety associated with the cosmetic issues of small testicles caused by testosterone therapy.

To sum up, my advice would be to get your doctor to perform a blood test that includes oestrogen. If the testosterone comes back low then ask for two-weekly shots. If oestrogen is high then ask about using a small amount of antiaromatasing medication to combat. This in itself will reduce your risk of gynecomastia.

Best regards.
Craig
9
Diagnosis Problems / Re: I keep losing a testicle..
« Last post by Doran on October 14, 2017, 06:49:35 PM »
Awesome reply Craig thanks.

I'm actually really lucky, my gp is a bit lost on this topic so I've been guiding her and after a month on gels I asked for injections (I do so much exercise each day, I'm rarely sweat free for more than 5 hours). And I pushed for home injections, which I got.
I'm only in month 2 and have also just started topping up with my own sustanon each third week.
Maybe in a few weeks I'll go and try and see if the gp will up my dose if I document my case well.

It's tempting to try HCG and a small AI dose and see how I feel. But will try to get an E2 test done to see.
Luckily I have no breast tissue, after removing my childhood gynecomastia, so that's a real blessing.

I wonder, does the NHS do sensitive E2 testing, or just normal?
Your message certainly makes me realise I have a good reason to ask for the test. Thank you
10
Therapy Issues / Re: GP refusing to monitor
« Last post by Ashto70 on October 14, 2017, 12:33:19 PM »
Yeah. That's the NHS for you. An absolute minefield.

The NHS has its own budgets managed by GP clinic managers, trusts, medical boards, executives, etc. They each liaise with the local MP and their minions as one of the hundreds of districts all over the country. Even different surgeries in your postcode area may handle their budgets differently from one next door. So, to a certain level, I can understand why one areas NHS might differ in their dealings with private consultants to others. However, for differences to occur in attitude to your treatment within your own surgery is unusual and shows a lacking of due process and coordination between GPs and staff at your clinic.

I definitely agree you should wait until your regular GP returns from vacation or wherever they are. You said two weeks, so I assume it will only be around a week to wait now? Then take it from there.

Let us know how you get on please.
Craig



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