Author Topic: Are too many guys misguided in wanting TRT?  (Read 236 times)

BigV

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Are too many guys misguided in wanting TRT?
« on: August 13, 2017, 09:12:18 PM »
This is just a bit of a ramble really

I have been away from this type of forum for a while, but recently I started visiting a few sites again and I can't help but notice numbers of youngish guys with 'OK' test results  - testosterone levels above the magic 12 nmol/L but perhapsa bit on the lower end of things.   Many seem absolutely convinced they need TRT and that it is going to cure all their ills... and to be fair a lot of the "information" (I use that term loosely as there is a lot of 'bro science' out there) is very pro-TRT. 

It is concerning that some of these people will end up on lifelong TRT to treat vague symptoms like fatigue when low T was never really their issue (placebo effect).    At the same time I know how hard it can be to get treatment even when you have red flag symptoms and levels below range. From what I can tell the NHS may even be more conservative than they were when I started treatment 8 or 9 years ago, but then that is perhaps not surprising if they are seeing loads of guys demanding TRT?

So I'm not sure how the balance is being struck between over or under treating low testosterone?     


Olly13

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Re: Are too many guys misguided in wanting TRT?
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2017, 10:15:27 PM »
It's definitely undertreated, 100%.

I haven't seen this much on here to be honest, most who are after trt are well under 12nmol/L, and those who are just over tend to have ridiculously high SHBG, so still have rock bottom free Testosterone. The other situation is a mild case of secondary Hypogonadism which can sometimes require Clomid, there is one recent case of this on here with 'low normal' levels, symptomatic and low LH, the guy now seems to be doing very well on clomid and evaded TRT.

I do however agree which some feel TRT is the holy grail and that it'll magically make everything awesome, which it doesn't, obviously if one has never ever had decent levels in there life then that feeling of being 'normal' can be quite euphoric, but that's not the point here, it's doesn't solve life issues at all. However if you've been in the dumps because of Low Testosterone then it might just change things enough to get your life back on track, but that is all effort on the users part, not solely testosterone.

Interesting topic nevertheless!  :)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 10:39:04 PM by Olly13 »

mt006

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Re: Are too many guys misguided in wanting TRT?
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2017, 10:04:27 PM »
Definitely under treated...

When I presented to my GP with low libido I was instantly offered anti-depressants and viagra (at the age of 35)

Even when I politely turned this down and returned with T levels of 5.5 n/mol (a repeat test returned 8.5) I was denied even a referral.

Even more worrying is the fact that there are a multitude of secondary issues that could cause low T that are not even investigated.

You are correct that in this day and age of Google people are perhaps jumping to the wrong conclusions but when the medical profession is letting them down it doesn't leave people much choice...

Olly13

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Re: Are too many guys misguided in wanting TRT?
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2017, 11:54:31 PM »
When I presented to my GP with low libido I was instantly offered anti-depressants and viagra (at the age of 35)

Try being offered that at the age of 21! I'm not even kidding...

Totally agree with the other points you've raised too, it's rather alarming.

nick

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Re: Are too many guys misguided in wanting TRT?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2017, 06:52:32 AM »
Hi Big V,

This is a really tricky one because there are a lot of guys who need help to get their hormones to a healthy level but are being misdiagnosed. In many cases they find themselves driven underground so to speak where "juice" is easy to get hold of. Is it a mistake? Yes absolutely but they are being led by the blind so to speak.

What they want of course is to feel good and as strong and healthy as the rest of their peers. They are both misguided and misled in thinking TRT is the answer. For me, it is the last resort when looking to become hormone healthy.

The great problem with hormone health is its interactions with the body and the fraction that must remain available to drive the "Baby factory" well.

That requires an investigation into associated influencers like diet exercise, social habits like drugs, alcohol tobacco and many others but the NHS hasn't got the resources for that and hormone experts in our arena are few and far between as we know..

Elsewhere it is different, if you pay for it.

When I lived in Canada, life suddenly took a turn for the worse. It was as though my TRT had halved its effectiveness. I was going bonkers and started making deciisions that cost me dear. Both IT contracts that were paying me a combined 60K a year dropped me.

I found an Andrologist in Windsor Ontario and went to see him. He took a comprehensive set of bloods and I went away.

Three days later I received an email telling me to get down to to a store to get some B12 and overdose on it because I was very close to a Pernicious Anemia diagnosis. My body was absorbing nothing in other words. That is an extreme case, but there are so many possibilities of system breakdowns causing a knock on effect resulting in a less than adequate level of Testosterone.

The other thing that is becoming abundantly clear is the general reduction in male hormone levels and fertility. There are reasons for it, not least of which are Endocrine disruptors in chemicals and the atmosphere.

I am working on a series of films to address this issue overall and highlight the inequality created by years of antipathy towards treating male hormones.

I'll be going off to Australia and New Zealand for two months at Christmas to take in an Ashes test match and gather a lot of material for the films. Nope, I am not loaded, just forgot about a four year period on a final salary pension that provided a big enough lump some for me to tick this long held desire off the list at last. :)

There is much wrong about the treatment of male hormones. It is reactive when it should be pro-active. The films we make will set the record straight.

Then it is a matter of pressure on the relevant bodies, which will come.

Cheers,

Nick

BigV

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Re: Are too many guys misguided in wanting TRT?
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2017, 10:13:26 PM »
Definitely under treated...

When I presented to my GP with low libido I was instantly offered anti-depressants and viagra (at the age of 35)

Even when I politely turned this down and returned with T levels of 5.5 n/mol (a repeat test returned 8.5) I was denied even a referral.

Even more worrying is the fact that there are a multitude of secondary issues that could cause low T that are not even investigated.


...
Wow that is shockingly bad.  5.5 and 8.5 and not even a referral to an endo?!!  :o

I can't understand why if a man goes to the doctor with sexual issues the doctor would prescribe a medication known to have negative side-effects on sexual function as most SSRIs do.

Don't get me wrong I have nothing against anti-depressants, they have uses and can help, but not before underlying physical issues have been resolved.  Anyone can be depressed if their body isn't functioning properly due to low T, low thyroid or whatever.

mt006

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Re: Are too many guys misguided in wanting TRT?
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2017, 07:23:05 PM »
Quote
I'll be going off to Australia and New Zealand for two months at Christmas to take in an Ashes test match

Wow sounds like a proper adventure.. I thought I was being adventurous by going to Tenerife for new year lol

Quote
I can't understand why if a man goes to the doctor with sexual issues the doctor would prescribe a medication known to have negative side-effects on sexual function as most SSRIs do.
Quote

Yes I said that straight away when offered - but her response was "you might feel better about it"   ::)



Ashto70

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Re: Are too many guys misguided in wanting TRT?
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2017, 04:12:36 PM »
That's what I thought Big V. How the hell are anti-depressants meant to increase libido when they're very well known to lower libido and make orgasm difficult?
So the doctor's idea was to reduce your libido further but give you an erection you cannot put to use. Interesting.

Olly13

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Re: Are too many guys misguided in wanting TRT?
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2017, 04:30:11 PM »
That's what I thought Big V. How the hell are anti-depressants meant to increase libido when they're very well known to lower libido and make orgasm difficult?
So the doctor's idea was to reduce your libido further but give you an erection you cannot put to use. Interesting.


When I was on Sertraline as a teen It literally took me hours to 'get to the point', I'm not even kidding, awful stuff.

Ashto70

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Re: Are too many guys misguided in wanting TRT?
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2017, 05:20:17 PM »
Sertraline is what I've been on for over twenty years now. My doctor says I'm on it for life so get used to it. To be honest it has no effect on me anymore regarding libido and ability to get erect and attain an orgasm. For me, all SSRI medications are the same in that sense: "awful stuff". Yes, they do what they're meant to do like make you an undepressed zombie, but I ain't no fan of them at all. By all accounts I think Sertraline is one of the weaker meds associated with side-effects of a sexual nature.

Olly13

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Re: Are too many guys misguided in wanting TRT?
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2017, 08:23:51 PM »
Sertraline is what I've been on for over twenty years now. My doctor says I'm on it for life so get used to it. To be honest it has no effect on me anymore regarding libido and ability to get erect and attain an orgasm. For me, all SSRI medications are the same in that sense: "awful stuff". Yes, they do what they're meant to do like make you an undepressed zombie, but I ain't no fan of them at all. By all accounts I think Sertraline is one of the weaker meds associated with side-effects of a sexual nature.

Out of fluoxetine, sertraline, and citalopram, I'd say fluoxetine was the mildest, sertraline in the middle and the worst was citalopram, I was on that shit 3-4 weeks tops and felt terrible, I was totally useless sex wise too.

It's a very individual thing, but either way, hormonally SSRIs are nasty, they increase prolactin for starters, but I won't waffle on.

Also like you, if you need them then you need them, I'm obviously 'lucky' I guess which I cope without, not which SSRIs ever worked for me anyway they always made things 20x worse.

I do miss lasting for hours though... ;)