Author Topic: New.....  (Read 243 times)

PaulL1234

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New.....
« on: February 07, 2018, 10:01:24 AM »
Hi all,

New here but have lurked for a while amassing info.

My story is no doubt very familiar, 42 yrs old and have been symptomatic for years, having always put it down to 'something else'.

2 years back had blood tests that showed a total T level of 8.2nmol - apparently 0.1nmol inside the guidelines causing Doc to state I was on the low end of normal, but normal all the same... how about some sertraline?

Looked into what it all meant at that time but wasn't prepared for a lifetime of treatment so decided to try and increase naturally through diet, exercise and all roumd clean living. Again, managed and explained symptoms away and things have got progressively worse.. especially for the family due to irritability and very low mood...

Back at docs recently and bloods showed a level of 7.3nmol, now 'qualify' as in the low bracket. Have to go back for more bloods to get a full hormonal profile this week as Doc didn't test for LH, FSH or SHBG. Seems very helpful and prepared to send me to the endo as soon as we know a likely diagnosis...

So, marking my ground on here for the journey... will no doubt ask questions when I have more info and results.

Cheers.....

andy

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Re: New.....
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2018, 02:13:13 PM »
Hi there,

Welcome to the forum.

There are guys on here with more experience and knowledge of low testosterone than me, but I thought I'd say Hi. I'm 41 and was diagnosed with low testosterone last year. I can definitely appreciate the low moods and irritability as I have had them for a couple of years now. They are a classic symptom of low T. I have also spent some time on sertraline before I realised my symptoms were caused by my hormones and not my mind.

It is indeed frustrating your doctor denied you any sort of treatment or a referral to an endocrinology specialist with levels of 8.2 as that is certainly low. At least you've now got a second blood test arranged and it sounds like your doctor is at last taking things seriously. Testing for LH, FSH and SHBG is important as this may give an indication as to what is causing the low T. Hopefully you will get a referral to an endo fairly soon to discuss the options for treatment.

The guys on here are really great at answering questions and offering support, so fire away with any questions. I hope all goes well for you.

Regards,
Andy

PaulL1234

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Re: New.....
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2018, 06:48:21 PM »
Thanks for the welcome Andy... yeah, plenty of the other symptoms too such as very low libido, ED, sleep issues, extreme fatigue, brain fog and dizzy spells... All wrapped up in that horrible hollow empty feeling.

There's so much info and experience on these boards, looking forward to making use of it.


Ashto70

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Re: New.....
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2018, 04:12:40 PM »
Hi Paul

Sorry, you had to join our little club but welcome all the same.
Andy's being very modest at downplaying his knowledge because he's clarified some important points. Besides, everyone has their own story and experience to bring to the table and it's all important info that can prove useful.

It's good your doctor has now referred you to a specialist, and hopefully, they'll organise tests for the bits Andy and you mentioned. It's unlikely an endo will test your oestrogen, especially at this stage in your investigations, but it would be all the more helpful in determining or ruling out possible causes for your deficiency. LH and FSH are obviously important to test because the outcome of their results could influence and add to your treatment options - testosterone versus Clomid.

For me, on the basis of the two tests you've already had, it seems you're a dead-cert for testosterone deficiency and a good candidate for successful therapy providing the result of the endocrinologist's test is below or around 8nmols/L. Symptoms are equally important in making an informed diagnosis too, and all those definitely suggest classical signs of low testosterone.

Welcome again bro, and feel free to ask any questions. There are loads of guys eager and willing to share their thoughts and experience.
Craig   

PaulL1234

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Re: New.....
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2018, 11:24:27 PM »
Thanks Craig... yeah, not the sort of club I'd have ideally wanted to join so early but now I'm here I'll try and make the best of it.    8)

I guess I'm at the frustrating point of everything pointing to a diagnosis but needing to have the "right" results to confirm. In all honesty I should have pushed harder 2 years ago, and I'd likely be nice and stable now.. hindsight eh?

Bloods in the morning then the usual wait for results and that awkward feeling of hoping and praying it comes in as definitively low, when really you want and need it to be just plain old normal as then you'd be feeling ok!

Actually, have many of you experienced dizziness and shortness of breath? I've been getting that a fair bit recently... always at the same time, just after lunch and into the afternoon..... I've read it is symptomatic on a couple of US sites but nothing definitive over here in the UK.....

andy

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Re: New.....
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2018, 08:10:18 PM »
Quite a few guys on here have mentioned feeling dizzy and lightheaded with low testosterone.

In my case I have suffered brain fog, feeling lightheaded, a lack of concentration, low mood and a form of general anxiety (not actually about anything specific) which I am sure are all as a result of having low T.  I also get a feeling of dizziness, more a feeling of things being a bit off balance rather than the entire room spinning or anything dramatic.

I've not heard anyone mention shortness of breath as a direct result of having low T, but there are loads of threads on here I've not read, so it may well be something others have experienced. If you are feeling anxious or irritable then it is possibly you are breathing more shallow than usual which can make you a bit out of breath. I know sometimes I have to really think about my breathing to ensure I'm breathing as deeply as possible. I find a big intake of breath through the nose followed by a slow outtake can help. If you continue to be worried about feeling short of breath then I would recommend you mention it to your GP.


Olly13

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Re: New.....
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2018, 09:23:32 PM »
Hey Paul.

I second Craig, sorry you've had to find us, but glad your here nevertheless. Your levels are terrible, definitely Hypogonadism territory no doubt about It, as already said you need further tests, such as LH and FSH to determine the cause etc, oestradiol and shbg would also be useful. It's good to see you've tried altering lifestyle first, whats even more interesting is to see the levels have gotten worse, seems like myself at the start of my own troubles,  I spent a good year or so spinning my wheels trying every odd idea out there, you name it I probably tried it...

Regarding the breathing stuff you and Andy mention, I've actually dug deep into this topic myself and there is a definite link between asthma and Testosterone, several studies are pointing to this now. From an anecdotal point of view, I've essentially eliminated my asthma for the most part since being on TRT, I've not touched an inhaler or montelukast for about 4-5 months! So yeah, I'm convinced. I also had a permanent chronic cough before TRT too that has coincidentally disappeared too...

None of this is surprising though, testosterone is highly anti inflammatory in its own right, so what's interesting is when people on TRT have been studied,  there is a trend towards showing improvements in the types of disorders and diseases that are also linked to high inflammation, including stuff like artery/cardiovascular health, alzheimers, chronic pain, depression, etc, you get my point.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/11/28/567025641/testosterone-may-help-protect-men-from-asthma

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110726093146.htm

https://www.alzdiscovery.org/news-room/blog/inflammation-the-driver-of-alzheimers-disease

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19011291/

The above all make good reading material on the subject if you get time :)

PaulL1234

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Re: New.....
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2018, 12:39:17 PM »
Thanks Olly and Andy... the dizziness I'm sure is related, as thats been getting steadily more prevalent.... I'll read those studies Olly, not being able to catch my breath is relatively new as is a massive decrease in stamina and power (would consider myself a pretty fit person generally), actually required my wife's inhaler a few weeks back when playing badminton for the first time ever.

It is frustrating to see the levels go down further after living a fairly spartan lifestyle for the past 2 years+... no alcohol, minimal sugar, no processed food at all, always eating clean and a wide variety of frequent exercise. I usually take Zma, Curcumin and omega 3s daily too. Just feels like it is barely stemming the onrushing tide now though.... to look at me you would never expect low t as I'm pretty lean and muscular which I'm sure may have hindered things with the doc previously. "You don't look like you are lacking in anything....."

Ashto70

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Re: New.....
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2018, 02:20:15 PM »
Cheers for the links Ollie. Interesting stuff and something new to me. I had asthma as a pubescent and young adult and after five or so years on TRT I didn't need treatment for it anymore and no longer use a relief inhaler or steroid inhaler. Thinking about it though, testosterone's very nature is steroidal cholesterol and must have some anti-inflammatory properties. Thought provoking in the least.

PaulL1234

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Re: New.....
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2018, 02:59:52 PM »
Just called in for results and unfortunately it was very busy, so receptionist couldn't  spend too long going through them over phone. She's printing out and I'll get them tomorrow but what she did say was that total t was 11.9nmol and GL (?) was 2.9.... SHBG was 'normal' and so no further action required.......

Will wait and see what the full numbers look like but must admit the jump in total t is odd... clearly the docs have landed on numbers that mean they don't need to do anything which is great for them!

Olly13

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Re: New.....
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2018, 03:48:05 PM »
Cheers for the links Ollie. Interesting stuff and something new to me. I had asthma as a pubescent and young adult and after five or so years on TRT I didn't need treatment for it anymore and no longer use a relief inhaler or steroid inhaler. Thinking about it though, testosterone's very nature is steroidal cholesterol and must have some anti-inflammatory properties. Thought provoking in the least.

Extremely interesting Craig, so essentially we've both beaten asthma with TRT? I think I'm onto a definite connection here, I mean it's already proven women get it worse than men, and that testosterone is likely responsible for this. 

What would be awesome is if a study was done, that showed asthma severity and testosterone levels had a clear trend or not, wouldn't be hard to conduct really.


Just called in for results and unfortunately it was very busy, so receptionist couldn't  spend too long going through them over phone. She's printing out and I'll get them tomorrow but what she did say was that total t was 11.9nmol and GL (?) was 2.9.... SHBG was 'normal' and so no further action required.......

Will wait and see what the full numbers look like but must admit the jump in total t is odd... clearly the docs have landed on numbers that mean they don't need to do anything which is great for them!

This is rather frustrating I imagine, let us know the full results when you can, if GL (?) = LH then you might be secondary, but more on that when you get the results.

PaulL1234

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Re: New.....
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2018, 12:28:43 PM »
Ok so....

Serum test 11.9nmol
SHBG 26nmol
LH 2.9 IU/L
FSH 2.1 IU/L

Unfortunately the print out only states ltest values so doesn't show LH or FSH from my 2 previous tests that had 8.2 and 7.3 total test values....
Grateful for any observations and suggestions....

Olly13

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Re: New.....
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2018, 01:56:20 PM »
Ok so....

Serum test 11.9nmol
SHBG 26nmol
LH 2.9 IU/L
FSH 2.1 IU/L

Unfortunately the print out only states ltest values so doesn't show LH or FSH from my 2 previous tests that had 8.2 and 7.3 total test values....
Grateful for any observations and suggestions....

Very Likely secondary, it doesn't look like your pituitary is calling for any more testosterone.

So, the route I'd go down is asking for a referral to UCLH androlgy in London, and ask for Clomid or HCG, both of which stimulate natural endogenous testosterone, so that way you'll be able to keep full you of your nads, and maintain fertility etc.

Failing that, I know Dr Savage at the Leger clinic in Doncaster will sometimes use clomid for secondary Hypogonadism, but obviously this comes at financial cost.

Hope this helps. :)

Just to note this is all advice, don't take it as diagnosis.

PaulL1234

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Re: New.....
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2018, 02:12:38 PM »
Cheers Olly... of course, noted.

Fertility not an issue due to vasectomy about 5 yeara ago, nor is cost (within reason!)... more concerned with speed of diagnosis/treatment and location (am based down near Bristol).

I'll look into both of those and see what's best placed.... thanks again Olly, much appreciated.

andy

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Re: New.....
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2018, 02:52:10 PM »
I agree with Olly.....very likely secondary.

My second blood test last year just before I first saw the endocrinologist showed very similar LH and FSH  to you:
Test 6.7
SHBG 23
LH 3.4
FSH 2.2

The first thing the endo said when he saw my LH and FSH levels was "we can almost certainly rule out primary".

Best of luck in getting a referral, diagnosis and treatment. I hope all goes well for you.